"We want to have strong communities" - interview with Remah Naji, Greens candidate for Moreton
You can listen to this interview via the audio player, or read the transcript below. The discussion was pretty casual and free-flowing, so I've edited the transcript slightly for clarity, and added headings to help readers find topics of interest.
Interview transcript
Jonathan: Hey everyone, I'm Jonathan Sriranganathan, and today it is my great pleasure to interview Remah, who's the Greens candidate for Moreton in the upcoming federal election. We'd like to start by acknowledging the rightful owners of country, paying respects to the Jagera and Turrbal people, and acknowledging that sovereignty was never ceded. Remah, thank you for joining us.
Remah: Of course, thank you.
Jonathan: It's really great to see you stepping up as a candidate. But I wanted to start by jumping back a bit and asking you to tell us a little bit about your upbringing and how that shaped your values and your worldview.
Remah: Yeah, thank you. So I was born and raised in Jordan. My father is a Naksa survivor. He was displaced from Palestine in 1967 and ended up a refugee in Jordan. My mum was born to a family of Nakba survivors. My mum was born in Jordan because when her family were displaced in 1948, they went straight to Jordan.
I grew up with four brothers. I have no sisters. And actually, my mum and dad wanted to have a family of girls. And the first one was a boy. They’re like “Great. All right. Try again.” He was another boy. And then, “oh, he's healthy. Fine. We'll try again.” Third one was a boy. And they're like, “yeah, we're done. We're not trying anymore.” And then I was actually the mistake baby. And my mum was convinced that this is going to be another boy. And she was trying to have an abortion. And while she was trying to find a safe place to have an abortion, she was actually looking to adopt a girl, and it was her best friend who kept convincing her like “just keep the baby this could be the gift that you've been waiting for” so after a lot of convincing she decided to keep me and then I was a girl. And then they were thrilled and tried again. It was a boy and then like thank goodness [they stopped] because they could have kept going.
Jonathan: Yeah right. So growing up in Jordan... both your parents are essentially refugees or displaced people. Did that shape your sense of social justice a lot?
Remah: Oh, absolutely. Look, all of our conversations on the dinner table were about the injustices happening in the world. Watching the news, watching people suffering... I don't have close relatives in Palestine anymore - most of my relatives, especially close ones - are all over the world except for Palestine. But then looking at the news and being like... this is fucked up and I want to fight for you.
So I think this commitment from an early age that I'm actually going to fight for these people, even though I don't know them personally, but I'm willing to step up and fight for you. So that kind of shaped my sense of justice in so many ways, because when I see marginalisation and I meet with people who feel powerless, I'm like, I feel you. I see you. We're in the same boat and we’ll fight for each other.
What's wrong with our political system?
Jonno: Hell yeah. And now you're stepping up to run as a candidate. And I guess, like, a lot of people are feeling like politicians don't really listen to them. There's a sense that government isn't really serving the long term public interest. I wanted to understand why do you think that is? What's going wrong with politics at the moment in Australia?
Remah: Well, they're serving the interests of big corporations. We're talking about major parties that receive millions of dollars in donations from big corporations. So there is something that they're going to pay them back. Whereas the interests of the people – who's going to fight for these people who aren't really paying big money to those major parties? Who's going to fight for them? And then if you look at those systems of power and conversations that are happening at a grassroots level, you find that there is a gap. Those systems of power, they talk about, you know, like the line of production, increasing consumerism, they talk about, and then all of that leads to concentration of wealth, concentration of poverty across the globe.
Jonno: And concentration of power, right?
Remah: And concentration of power, absolutely. Whereas at grassroots levels, we talk about things like.. we want to create- we want to have dialogues, we want to have strong communities. I heard a really interesting conversation the other day about [how] we actually want to go back to our roots in terms of, reinforcing Indigenous ways of life. We want to talk about caring for the environment, we want to talk about caring for each other. Well these conversations don't happen-
Jonno: In the political establishment-
Remah: Yeah they don't happen within political circles, they don't. So i guess there is a big gap and we want to bridge this gap.
Campaign focus
Jonno: Yeah, cool. Well said. And so in the federal election campaign, the Greens are obviously going to be talking a lot about issues like housing affordability and renters' rights, supermarket price gouging, healthcare, of course climate change and transitioning away from fossil fuels… Is there anything else – as well as those issues – that you're hoping to elevate as part of your campaign for Moreton, what else have people been telling you is important to them locally?
Remah: All of these things are important to the people of Moreton. We've been out doorknocking and we heard all of these things at the doors. We have people reaching out to us and asking us questions about our position. So clearly all of these things matter to people. But we also heard from other members of the community who are passionate about things like disability justice. And this is one of the things that I want to fight strongly to bring and elevate the voices within the disability community and make it front and centre in our campaign.
Jonno: Awesome.
Remah: Because we know that they feel marginalized and they feel that they don't have the same access to basic services like housing. They don't have the same access to a lot of other services. So I want to fight strongly for disability justice. I also, through my connection to a lot of Indigenous communities, it's very important for me to amplify the voices of my Indigenous siblings within this campaign. I want to fight for things like migrants’ rights. I've been doing some volunteering with migrant communities who are struggling to bring their families here - some of them are struggling with getting refugee visas for their families back in Sudan, for instance. And they're trying to get- they're trying to save them you know?
Jonno: Yeah and I feel like this is something that often the political establishment overlooks is that there are a lot of Australian citizens who have parents, siblings, children who are stuck in conflict zones, or they're just trying to get them to Australia, and the immigration system is just so bureaucratic and flat-out racist. So that's interesting that people have been raising that with you.
Remah: And, you know, also when we talk about these things, it actually matters to the people to feel that sense of belonging. You know, our families are stuck in conflict zones and some of them are being killed and they're being forced to live in conditions that are unliveable. So if I feel that I belong to this country, how is this going to affect my sense of belonging? How is this going to affect my ability to integrate within the wider society if I feel that my family aren't able to be safe?
Jonno: Yeah, like you can't enjoy a good life knowing that your immediate relatives are really struggling. So, yeah, it's common sense, I guess.
Responding to political attacks?
So you've put your hand up to run for the Greens. The federal election is probably – maybe – in May. The date hasn't been fixed yet. It seems pretty likely that your political opponents and sections of the media are going to try to paint you as a ‘radical extremist,’ you know, that sort of classic attack that they tend to use, particularly on people of colour and you as someone who's been really active in the Palestinian justice movement. Have you thought much about how you're going to counteract that? How are you going to respond to those attacks? Are you just going to ignore them? What's the strategy at this stage?
Remah: Look, I think we need to ask ourselves, why are they doing this? And I think there are a bunch of reasons. A) It's a distraction from the work that we're doing. So I wouldn't allow this to distract me. And we're going to keep pushing forward with the good things that we have within this campaign.
Jonno: So don't allow yourself to be distracted by the attacks...
Remah: Absolutely not.
Jonno: Focus on positive vision.
Remah: We're not going to allow them to distract us. And also, there are attempts to intimidate us within this campaign. And we're not going to be intimidated. I mean, we're up for this.
Jonno: Hell yeah.
Remah: We're here to fight. We're here to fight very strongly. So we're not going to be intimidated by all of these portrayals as if we are radical, extremists, etc. And by the way, the things that I'm pushing for, they matter to the community. They're not like, this is not something that I came up with and I want to fight for, for the sake of fighting. This matters to the community. Like when I talk about migrants' rights, these are thousands of people within the electorate that this thing resonates very strongly with them. So I'm going to fight very hard for you guys. And when we talk about Palestine justice, this matters to tens of thousands of members of the Moreton electorate.
Jonno: It's not just a personal crusade for you.
Remah: It's not just a personal thing to me. It matters to a lot of people within the community. So it would be very hypocritical of us to be like, “oh, these are just narrow issues.” Well maybe to you, [but] they're not marginal to a lot of other people.
Jonno: I think that's a good strategy as well to respond to these sorts of attacks of extremism to be like, “no, no, this is what the community is telling me is important.”
Remah: And what I'm doing is pretty much amplifying their voices, which if I'm their representative, this is what I'm elected to do – to amplify your voices rather than just taking orders from up top. I actually need to listen to their community. I am accountable to those people. They elected me to represent them. So the first step to do is actually to, while I'm campaigning, I need to represent you right.
Grassroots activism vs electoralism
Jonno: And this brings me to an interesting question, which is like, a lot of activists, people who are really critical of the political establishment are understandably a bit, I guess, skeptical about running for elections. So I'm interested in hearing from you... you're definitely, you've definitely got a foot in that social movement space and that grassroots activism space. Are you worried you'll be diverting energy away from that stuff? And what's the value in contesting elections?
Remah: Before I put my hand up for this, I made a promise that this campaign is not going to distract from political activism and social justice - my involvement in social justice movements. So the way I see it is that there's this political campaign and there's this social justice movement and we are going to move together. We're going to work closely with each other because we inform each other. And the way I view this... My philosophy is it's an ecology of organisations. So we have to build alliances and who we build alliances with matters.
So we have to think of unions, we have to think of media organisations, we have to think of community organisations at grassroots levels, and we can't underestimate the power of political parties. And in the current circumstances where traditional political parties are in decline, this actually paves the way for minor political parties to emerge and be the alternative for the people. So working together within those alliances actually expands the possibilities of electoral politics. And this is how we put pressure on the system through working closely and building alliances with different organisations. And I see each one of these organisations as a tool for change.
Jonno: I think this idea of an ecology of the left is a really valuable insight. I think there are some activists who are just like, “Politics is corrupt. We shouldn't waste any time on party politics and parliament.” And I kind of sometimes feel like that's a little bit naive because they're still exerting power. Like whether we pay attention to it, whether we try and challenge it and contest it in that sphere, they're still passing laws. They're still funding the military industrial complex. So yeah, I can see why you're running.
Have you thought deeply yet about how to really ensure that those two spheres of change advocacy are working closely together? In terms of how your campaign is going to be structured, are people who aren't members of the Greens going to be able to participate? Is it an open space for anyone who wants to get involved to come along?
Remah: Yeah. Absolutely. It is an open space. And I have people who are already volunteering in the campaign who are not Greens members. And generally speaking, they're not greenies. And they've never been involved in any political movement before. They've never been involved in campaigning before. And they are joining this campaign because it's a part of the movement because they understand that actually, this is one way of us implementing the changes that we've been pushing for, for I don't know how many years.
This is one way of us actually saying we actually exist and not only on the streets. We're going to be in parliament where all decisions are made. And this is how I see it. I mean, this is not just my voice. It's the collective. They're the people who are involved in this movement. And when I put my hand up for this, I said it. I'm like, you know what? I do believe in Greens policies and I'm proud to be a part of the Greens, running this as a part of the Greens. But at the same time, I am proud that this is at a grassroots level campaign.
Jonno: It's about the community, not just party politics.
Remah: It is about the community. And there are members of the community who... Maybe they don't see themselves... they will never be a part of the Greens, but they're voting this time around. They're voting because this movement is about them. Yes. Because this movement is open to everyone. And you know what, Jonno? I don't need to agree with everyone on the ground for them to be a part of this movement. If sometimes I can agree with you 10 out of 10, 9 out of 10, 8 out of 10. If I agree with you 1 out of 10, that's enough for me, for you and I to build an alliance. And this is what this movement is about.
Doing politics differently
Jonno: Yeah, cool. I mean, it makes me think about, okay, let's fast forward and you get elected and suddenly Remah is the federal member of parliament for the Moreton electorate. How are you actually going to use that role of elected office differently? What are you going to do differently to existing politicians? How are you going to build community capacity rather than just being yet another political office that doesn't reply to emails kind of thing?
Remah: Yeah, so look, I'm actually kind of inspired by some of the things that my Greens colleagues are doing. Like the food programs, their school breakfast, their free regular dinners, all of these things I'm going to keep doing here in Moreton. And Moreton is a very big electorate, so there are a lot of opportunities for us to run these programs.
But at the same time, through my interactions with current sitting MPs, I mean, I can see that when I meet with them, is there actually anything happening from these meetings? And that lack of willingness to fill this gap when I meet with you. I mean, I understand that MPs are busy, but hey, I'm busy too. And I'm not getting paid to meet with you as an MP. You are an MP. You're getting paid to represent me. But I'm putting this time because actually this matters to me. It matters to my sense of belonging. It matters to my inclusion within this society. So when I go and meet with an MP and feel like I'm unheard, this is a major thing that I don't want to be doing when I'm elected as an MP.
I want to create opportunities for people to come and meet not only with me, but with other members of the community. And my office is not going to be for people who agree with me. We want to create those spaces to allow for dialogue to happen between different members of the community who might disagree with each other. And this could be the basis for them to actually take it to their communities and have those discussions at a community level.
And one of the other things that I'm hoping to do when I'm elected is to create a two-way channel with the community. So when I'm asked to vote on things that I know matter to my community, I want to have input from the community. I want feedback. I want to ask them, how do you want me to vote on these matters? So creating this two-way communication channel with the community is really important. How we’re going to do it, I don't know – this could be like we could utilise social media, we could talk about surveys... It really depends on what exactly are we voting for and the timeframes and all of these things and how much it matters to the communities. But we certainly need to be connected with the community. If I'm voting in parliament, I want input from the community.
Jonno: I think this is a really powerful idea because the Greens have a platform and you'll be elected on that policy platform, but there are so many times as an elected representative where the policy platform is kind of silent. It doesn't actually tell you what you should do. And at that point, politicians, they're just kind of making up their own mind or they're talking to other politicians or maybe they're getting lobbied by big business.
So this idea of actually turning around to the community and saying, “hey, how do you want me to vote in parliament?” is really powerful. But I think you're right that the exact process will depend on the decision and the context. Like sometimes you'll be able to have an electorate-wide survey or a poll and sometimes you'll want to have face-to-face forums where you can dig into the issue a bit. It'll depend on what the decision is. But yeah, I think that grassroots participatory democracy stuff is really important to guard against corruption as well and to keep you honest.
Remah: Yeah keeps me accountable and it doesn't mean that everyone has to participate every time. I mean I know that sometimes some of the things... people aren't very passionate about certain things, but if it matters to them they are going to participate and this is how we can... I want these spaces to be like even if i'm not voting on something on a bill in parliament I want to be like, "look this is the Greens’ policies on disability" – for instance – "this is where we are, where do you want us to be? How can we make them better so that you feel that you are included and this is the inclusive environment that you think you'll thrive in?"
So having all of these conversations and allowing for this conversation to happen in the first place is very important to me.
Militarism, the US alliance, and normalising genocide
Jonno: Yeah cool. And this brings me to the interesting question about why particularly the Labor party has been so disconnected from public sentiment. You told me that one of the reasons you kind of gave up on the Labor Party and joined the Greens was that you're really unhappy with their support for Israel's genocidal invasion and occupation. But I guess I'm wondering, why is it that Labor has been so incapable of listening to ordinary people? And why is it so subservient to Israeli and I guess US interests?
Remah: Look, Bob Carr, the former foreign minister – who was a Labor politician – actually wrote a book about the influence of the Israeli lobby on foreign policy. And if you look at a lot of the decisions made in regards to foreign policy, the Americanisation of politics is real, and there is a strong US influence in Australia. And, I think in Australia, we need to rethink our allyship. We need to rethink our strategies and our relationships with the world. We can't just let the US lead our decisions. We can't let that Americanization of politics influence us. Especially when we are geographically located in a completely different part of the world... we're in a different continent. We need to build allies with different countries. We can't just allow for the US to make decisions and we just follow blindly. I mean we know that there is a strong Israeli lobby and there's also a strong US influence on our policies.
Jonno: Yeah, I 100% agree. And I think it's, Like, it really shows at times like this. You know, most of the time there's a US-Australian military alliance. No one really thinks about it very much until the US is leading us into another war.
Remah: And AUKUS. I mean, look at the AUKUS deal. How much are we going to spend on this, you know, like nuclear-powered submarines?
Jonathan: That we do not need.
Remah: Yeah, $267 billion over the next 10 years.
Jonathan: While they tell us that there's not enough money for public housing. Yeah, it's crazy.
Remah: That's precisely right.
Jonathan: So I think there's potentially a risk, maybe that's too strong a word, that some people will think of you as like, oh, ‘the Palestinian politician,’ but you're very across a whole bunch of issues. You've got a deep knowledge about climate change and housing policy and all this other stuff. So I guess I'm cautious about asking another question about Palestine, but I was interested in how you think we should respond when people say, “oh, the Greens are talking too much about Palestine. They should focus on local issues.” What's your answer to that?
Remah: The Greens aren't talking too much about Palestine. And I think there's a lot of connectedness between the struggles of the Palestinian people and the struggles of the Indigenous people of this country. And if you look at the decisions made over the past year, for instance, actually they're very much relevant to our lifestyles in Australia.
For instance, the government awarded the Israeli weapons company Elbit Systems a contract of almost $1 billion. Why is this not being spent on things that matter to everyday Australians, such as social housing, such as education? I mean, I can't believe that our public schools aren't really free public schools. I can't believe that people are struggling to pay to go to a GP. I can't believe that people might have some dental issues and don't have the money, the means to go and pay for the dentist.
This is very local – it's very relevant to our communities. Once we start realizing how much of an impact those decisions at a federal level have on our day-to-day lives, we actually start to think, actually, we need to pay attention. And you need to be out on the streets protesting. Why is it that this money is going to weapons companies that are killing other people while we're struggling to put food on our tables? This is very relevant to our day-to-day lives.
Jonathan: Well said. I think you've nailed it. And I think usually it's a disingenuous criticism. Usually it's people who just don't want us to talk about Palestine who are saying that. But I think that is a really powerful critique to just be like, look, this matters because Australian resources are being wasted on wars that are oppressive and unjust and ordinary people are struggling. And I think it also matters at the deeper level in terms of our shared humanity, right? Like we are all diminished by what happens to people in other parts of the world. This idea of like strict national borders where we should only care about Australians and as soon as you get to Papua New Guinea, it's not our problem anymore. It's ridiculous, right?
Remah: No, you're absolutely right. And you know what? Once we normalise things like a genocide, once we normalise the killing of our siblings right on the screens, then this will become a part of our identity as a society. And I said this once. I really worry that if this becomes a part of our identity, this will also shape the way we treat each other as a society. So this will mean that people of certain cultures, people of certain backgrounds are being treated differently simply because we've allowed for the killing of the people who look exactly like them to be normalised from our mainstream media, from our politicians. And then what does that mean for our society?
Jonathan: I think that normalisation is utterly terrifying. And I think you're right to point to it, that this is not just about Palestine. This is about humanity and the way we treat other people and what we consider acceptable and where we draw the lines. And, yeah, I think that's probably what motivates a lot of people to actually show up and march again and again week after week is “this shouldn't be happening to anyone.” And credit to you for really leading the charge. I know you it's not all you, but you've been putting so much time and energy into this struggle for such such a long time and I think people really see and value that, so thank you for sticking up in that way, I know it's a big sacrifice. And now you're making another sacrifice because you're running for parliament but I wonder, what makes you think Moreton is winnable this time around? Because it's obviously like the Greens have won a few federal seats in the last election, but it's a real slog to win a federal seat with like 100,000 plus voters. Are you confident? Do you think you've got a chance?
Remah: I think we've never seen favourable conditions like this time around. A) There is a retiring ALP incumbent of 17 years, which makes the win easier.
Jonathan: Yeah, I don't think people realise that - that the current Labour member is stepping down, so they don't have that benefit of incumbency.
Remah: Yes, yes. I mean, it's so much easier to win a seat when there is no incumbent. So there's this one. There's a strong anti-Labour sentiment because of a lot of communities feel that they've been betrayed by both major parties, Labour and the LNP. And we know with the Muslim community, there is a significant presence of the Muslim community within the Moreton electorate who feel pretty much betrayed, especially through the support of Labor for an active genocide. And our calls for long lasting ceasefires, our calls for sanctioning Israel and actually doing something tangible rather than being ‘concerned’ and ‘worried’ and issuing all of these empty statements. All of these calls have been unheard and we feel pretty much betrayed. So there's that.
There's also the changing demographic of the Moreton electorate. A lot of people have been priced out from more inner-city suburbs and are now moving to Moreton. They're starting to engage more in politics. So there are a lot of factors that will help us win this time around. And also over the past few years, there's a [growing] organic support for the Greens within the Moreton electorate.
Jonathan: Yeah, right.
Remah: So winning is actually not... We're not so far off from winning Moreton this time around.
Jonathan: Yeah it'll still be a challenge. It'll be a lot of work, but it's there for the taking if the Greens put the work in. I'm excited. Well, how can people get involved in your campaign? How can they support even if they don't have the time to do much?
Remah: Look, in order for us to win Moreton, we're going to need everyone. We're going to need everyone's energy. We're going to need everyone's input. We're going to need everyone's time. So whatever ‘more’ means to you, like more in terms of your capacity, we need it. If you don't have the time, you can also donate. If you're one of these people who are busy doing other things, but you have the means to donate to this campaign, we need every dollar. We need every minute. We need everything from everyone and if you really want to challenge this political system, it can't happen by just a few of us. I mean a few of us are going to drive the change a few of us are going to organise, but we need each and every single one of you in order to help us win this seat.
Jonathan: Well said. So sign up to volunteer. Donate if you can afford to. There are lots of pathways to get involved. I think that's a pretty good note to end on. Did you have any final comments? Is there anything else you want to leave people with to think about. Any note of optimism or hope in what's a pretty messed up time?
Remah: Look, I get hope and strength from the streets. I know that the system is fucked, but we're here to fight it. And we have a lot of strength in our community. So we're up for it.
Jonathan: Hell yeah. Awesome. Thanks so much for the chat, Remah. It's been a pleasure. Thanks for listening, everyone.
To support Remah's campaign, you can make a donation via this link, or sign up to volunteer via her website.
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Transparency disclosure: Just in case it's not glaringly obvious, I should point out that at the time of conducting this interview, I was – and continue to be – a member of the Queensland Greens (but I'm not an official party spokesperson). Since this interview was recorded, I've decided to get more actively involved specifically in Remah's campaign for Moreton. If you feel like I was too easy on Remah, or that there are other questions you'd have liked to see me ask her, please let me know via the comments below, and I'll try to put those questions to her in a future interview.
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